Tuesday, October 12, 2010

Betrayer of Worlds

Puppeteers are the sneakiest, most conniving -- and for many SF readers, most fascinating -- aliens in the galaxy. They're certainly the most cowardly. Arguably, they're the most ruthless.

Maybe that's why I so enjoy writing about them. As in -- just released today -- the latest installment in Larry Niven's and my epic Fleet of Worlds series: Betrayer of Worlds.
Since the chain reaction of supernovae at the galactic core sent a trillion Puppeteers aboard the Fleet of Worlds fleeing for their lives, the two-headed aliens have lurched from one crisis to the next ...

Until now, when -- like every Puppeteer's worst nightmare -- past crises have converged.



 Who can possibly save the Fleet of Worlds from its greatest peril yet?

Louis Wu? Trapped in the Wunderland civil war, all he wants is to go home -- but the only possible escape will plunge him into unknowable danger.  

Ol’t’ro? The Gw’oth ensemble mind fled across the stars to establish a colony world free from tyranny. But some problems cannot be left behind, and other problems -- like the Fleet of Worlds itself -- are racing straight at them.  

Achilles? Despite past disgrace, the charismatic Puppeteer politician knows he is destined for greatness. He will do anything to seize power -- and to take his revenge on everyone who ever stood in his way. 

Nessus? The insane Puppeteer scout is out of ideas, out of resources, with only desperation left to guide him.   

Their hopes and fears, dreams and ambitions are about to collide. And the winner takes . . . worlds.

Louis Wu? you say. If that name rings a bell, it's from Larry Niven's Ringworld series. Ringworld itself first came out 40 years ago this month -- and remains wildly popular. As Ringworld opens, Louis is 200 years old. So what was he doing for the previous two centuries? Betrayer of Worlds is -- at long last -- Louis Wu's back story.

Are you curious about the story behind the story, and the connections between the two books? Then here's a short essay I wrote on the topic for Tor.com.

That said, Betrayer of Worlds opens seventy years before Ringworld. BOW stands alone from Ringworld -- as it does from Fleet / Juggler / Destroyer of Worlds. (Which isn't to say they don't complement each other.)

To see the evolution of this great Puppeteer statue -- fine work by Leviathan Studios -- go here.

For the publisher's take on Betrayer of Worlds and an excerpt (with a sadly out of date bio/biblio for yours truly ... sigh), go here.

(August 21, 2012 update. Fate of Worlds: Return from the Ringworld was released today. Fate is the final book in the Fleet of Worlds and the Ringworld series -- and so, the end of Louis Wu's story as begun in Betrayer. For more info, see today's post, "There is no fate (of worlds) but what we make ourselves.")

Betrayer of Worlds
At Amazon in hardback and mass-market paperback 
Larry Niven and Edward M. Lerner
Tor Books
ISBN 0765326086
Also available for the Kindle and in audio formats

56 comments:

AReichl said...

You MUST go on writing stories in the Ringworld universe (what about "Protector 2" - the fight against the first Pak fleet?).

Edward M. Lerner said...

Thanks for the encouragement.

- Ed

StrikitRich said...

I just finished _Betrayer of Worlds_, and I was wondering just how far in the future it was set from the last book. Seems to me some time has passed as Nessus and Nike seem to have broken up, there was no mention of Alice Jordon's first baby with Roy Truesdale, so it may have grown up, and there has been some generational turnover in Ol’t’ro.

Thanks for the timeline help.

Bill in Osprey, FL

Edward M. Lerner said...

Hi Bill,

You're correct ... Betrayer takes place considerably after Destroyer.

In Destroyer, Sigmund's best guess of the date in Known Space is 2675. (Only a guess: Sigmund doesn't know how long Nessus [during Juggler] kept him in stasis.)

When Sigmund meets Louis Wu in Betrayer, Louis says the current Earth date is 2780, maybe 2781. So: on Earth, more than a century has passed between the books.

On New Terra, which has been accelerating steadily, a bit less time has passed because of relativistic time dilation.

- Ed

StrikitRich said...

Thanks for the fast reply. I vaguely remember the estimated dates being mentioned, but I couldn't remember what they were. I knew that some time had passed as Sigmund once mentioned his grown children and grandchildren. Also, Louis would have been a child when Nessus snatched Sigmund and it was stated early on that he was now 130.

Brian D White said...

Ed,

Thank you for your collaboration with Larry Niven and for bringing in all the fresh ideas that have kick started the parts of Known Space I enjoyed the most, specifically both the Protector novel and the Louis Wu-verse.

The conclusion Ringworld's Children has Louis and the Hindmost (Baedecker?) heading back to Home with the super-hyperdrive and Nessus and their children in statis, but suppose Louis discovers his lost memories stored in the Carlos Wu nano-doc and recovers them? Wouldn't he want to change course to Galactic North and perhaps back to Alice? Wouldn't he have the most to contribute to New Terra of all human worlds? Just a thought.

I wonder at least if you could let us know that you have more ideas for more collaborations. Having just finished Betrayer a few minutes ago, the predictable depression has set in ...

Edward M. Lerner said...

Hi Brian,

Thanks for your kind note -- I appreciate the encouragement.

I can't comment on your speculations without revealing spoilers. I'm happy to say, however, that there *will* be a fifth book. And unlike Fleet, Juggler, Destroyer, and Betrayer, Fate of Worlds will be a sequel, rather than a prequel, to the Ringworld books.

- Ed

Brian D White said...

Ed,

Thank you for the generous insight into the next book and the quick reply.

Jake said...

Thankyou for these stories. This just goes to show there is awesome adventure even with scrith, stasis fields and boosterspice etc. You heard the starfish... lets have a fifth book!

Anonymous said...

A sequel to Ringworld .. we need one more prequel to tidy things up. Too much happens to the fleet between Ringworld and Betrayer. Nessus comes home, the super hyperdirve is developed, the Gw’oth are sent packing (somehow) Achilles is deposed. And there's the outstanding issue of the Pak fleet and the whereabouts of Thssthfok.

Not that I would tell you and Larry how to do your jobs, it is your series, but I would LOVE just one more prequel. And then, LOTS of sequels .

Edward M. Lerner said...

Hi Anonymous,

You set rather ambitious goals for Larry and me ;-)

... but I appreciate the interest in the series. All I can say (without spoilers) is: stay tuned for Fate of Worlds.

- Ed

Mike said...

Formerly anonymous here … well, I certainly look forward to Fate of Worlds. Since I have your attention mind if I ask you two questions:

1.Why did Asufaller keep Thssthfok alive after he determined he couldn’t be interrogated to any effect? He knew he was a dangerous genius hell bent on escape. It always struck me as a bit incredulous that Asufaller wouldn’t neutralize Thssthfok for good considering what a potential threat he was … either that or the Puppeteers would insist on it.

2.Any idea on a release date for Fate of Worlds?

Thanks much.

Edward M. Lerner said...

Hi Mike,

Thanks for de-cloaking ;-)

Re your questions:

1. IMO, Sigmund Ausfaller *did* get useful info from Thssthfok (or Mr. T., as I call him when I can't input his name with a macro or a copy and paste). Regardless, as I saw Sigmund, he wouldn't kill in cold blood. In Destroyer of Worlds, see last page of the section "Thssthfok."

2. My best guess for Fate of Worlds is the second half of 2012. Every book in the series so far has come out in the fall.

- Ed

Anonymous said...

Hi Ed,

Regarding Asufaller and Thssthfok, as I was reading the story it seemed incongruous that Sigmund didn't put Thssthfok into stasis and keep him there except when he had questions for him. But I guess it made the story more interesting to have Thssthfok essentially free to run amok.

Thanks to you and Larry for a great series. I can't wait for the next installment.

Edward M. Lerner said...

Hi Anonymous,

Thanks for your kind note.

Re Ausfaller and Thssthfok: I believe you're asking about Destroyer of Worlds, not Betrayer of Worlds. Thssthfok has only appeared in Destroyer.

Agreed, Sigmund might have treated his "guest" as you suggest. Here are a few reasons why Sigmund didn't:

* He's not as paranoid as he once once -- New Terran autodocs treat paranoia.

* He's unwilling to treat a prisoner harshly without a necessity (as we see in other aspects of Thssthfok's treatment).

* He expects to learn about the prisoner from observation as well as from questioning.

- Ed

Jaycee Adams said...

Hi, Ed!

I just read the first three books and will be getting the next one soon (and now that I know to look for it, the fifth when it comes out). It's a lot of fun to be able to read all this backstory to all the stuff I've read over the years, especially in JoW.

Thank you for the fresh coat of paint on the playground, and for pulling Larry back into the park.

Is Fate of Worlds already written, or are you guys still working on it? Just curious how long it takes to get something done in the publishing world.

Have a good weekend!

Edward M. Lerner said...

Thanks, Jaycee!

Fate of Worlds is newly turned in to the publisher. My best guess is that it will see print (and electrons) in 2H12. (Schedules change; I've learned not to try to forcast more precisely than that.)

And you have a great weekend, too.

- Ed

Anonymous said...

In several of the books it was speculated that the protectors don’t have “free will” because they are so intelligent that they see the most logical course of action for any given situation and always choose it. It has also been strongly suggested that despite their super intelligence they are driven by instinct, namely to protect their kin, to a fault. I had been thinking that this might only apply to Pak protectors and not the protector stage of humans. It seems that tree of life gives a creature 3 orders of magnitude more intelligence but not any additional wisdom. For example, a breeder goes from being a barely sentient ape to something on the order of a super genius human (ape –human intellect – human genius – human super genius), but for all intent and purpose, since it was derived from an ape, it still retains that overriding instinctual drive of an ape. Also like apes, Pak protectors don’t care much for music, culture, literature or any other creature comforts.

Human protectors however, skip the ape stage and advance one or two levels beyond super genius (look at what Brennan was able to do with the model world he built out in outer solar system) and still retain some of what makes them human (Brennan's practical jokes with the duplicate Stonehenge). Also, although it was the most logical move to initiate the solar flare and realign the Ringworld, and the only thing that would save it, Teela couldn’t bring herself to do it because it would kill 100’s of billions of its inhabitants and she allowed Louis and Speaker to kill her. So humans still retain a good deal of what makes them human: compassion, humor, culture and in addition to that are an order of magnitude more intelligent than the Pak.

What do you think of this and do you think this gives human protectors a distinct advance over their Pak brethren?

Edward M. Lerner said...

Hi Anonymous,

I agree. Human protectors are smarter than Pak protectors, and for the reason you state: human protectors transform from a smarter starting point.

Human protectors are also more capable than their Pak cousins of noninstinctual behavior. Again, where one starts from has bearing on where one ends up.

As for "no free will," I always took that as a bit of hyperbole. It's a dominant trait, and Brennan was sensitive to the change in his motivations -- but (IMO) the change didn't 100% control him.

Any creature smart and self-aware enough to discuss free will surely has some leeway to exercise it.

No civilized creature can be reduced to a single mode of behavior. Just as Puppeteers must sometimes rise above their instinctual fear -- they would hardly have conquered fire, otherwise -- Pak protectors can act with more than "must protect the children" simplicity.

- Ed

Edward M. Lerner said...

Oops ... I forgot to answer the concluding question in your post:

I do think a human protector has the advantage over the less intelligent, more instinctual (hence, more predictable) Pak protector. Brennan destroying three Pak scout ships, in Protector, is a pretty clear indicator.

- Ed

Anonymous said...

Mr Lerner

Thanks for the response. The lack of free will I was referring to was with respect to the Pak protectors, not the human protectors. The human protectors obviously display free will, but I don’t know if I have seen any of that from the Pak. They always seem to follow their instincts and seem to lack both the compassion and empathy seen in human protectors and vital, IMO, to free will. For example, the Pak killed untold billions (if not trillions) during their flight from the core for no other reason then the were in the way and yet Teela couldn’t kill when it was both the most logical and ultimately the most human solution to the plight of the Ringworld. I suppose there was something to Phssthpok’s treatment of Brennan, that he didn’t kill him immediately and allowed Brennan to kill him after his transformation, but with the Pak you’d almost think there was some very practical motive behind that decision.

A question about the end of betrayer .. when the new Puppeteer government was debating its next moves and one of the advisors suggested that the New Terran issue be dealt with (or something to that effect) the Gw’oth “science advisor” shot it down immediately. Do the Gw’oth have some fondness and compassion for the New Terrans because of their interactions with Sigmund and his crew or is this something more practical and less emotional than that?

Thanks again for taking time out for the fans.

Edward M. Lerner said...

Hi (again) Anonymous,

You wrote:

"Thanks again for taking time out for the fans."

It's my pleasure -- and thank you for your deep interest in the book(s). Authors don't always have time -- pesky deadlines! -- but most of us enjoy communicating with readers. I certainly do.

To your questions ... I do see the Gw'oth having some fondness for the New Terrans. (Deservedly: the New Terrans saved them a couple times.) And even Pak protectors can temper their ruthlessness, if the situation allows. In Destroyer of Worlds, Thssthfok recognizes that his captors have been more lenient with him than they might have been; he regrets what he must do to escape.

Cheers,

- Ed

Jawaid Bazyar said...

Hello,

I've enjoyed reading the Worlds series and can't wait for Fate of Worlds!

Edward M. Lerner said...

Thanks, Jawaid. I'm sorry I can't shorten your wait.

- Ed

Steve said...

Hi Ed, the Fleet of Worlds series was astounding. I loved every page. I'm a huge Niven fan and I normally dread collaborations with new authors (i.e. the Asimov Foundation sequels :( I can't wait to read your next book.

Edward M. Lerner said...

Hi Steve,

Thanks for the very kind words!

You wrote: "I can't wait to read your next book."

Alas, it'll be a few months. My next book is the near-future technothriller Energized (June or July 2012, most likely).

You also wrote: "The Fleet of Worlds series was astounding (my italics added).

I'll take exception to your use of the past tense because the series isn't quite complete :-). The final volume, Fate of Worlds, will be out circa August 2012.

As has been my practice since starting this blog, I'll announce new releases here when the time comes.

- Ed

Anonymous said...

I JUST (5 minutes ago) finished "Betrayer of Worlds" and I am ITCHING for the next one already. I had just recently (not even a month ago) found this new revival of Known Space novels and very happy I did. I bought and read all 4 books at once and in order, and now after finishing BoW I feel like need to just grab the 5th and start reading. I MUST know what happens with Ol't'ro, Achilles, Nessus, and Louis Wu after this book! Please continue this series and give us the conclusion I know must already be brewing in both of your brilliant minds!

P.S. Don't make us wait too long :D

Edward M. Lerner said...

Hi Anonymous,

Thanks! I'm glad you enjoyed the series -- and no need to worry about Louis Wu (et. al.) being left in the lurch. Fate of Worlds is already in the production pipeline at Tor Books. But you will have to wait: the book is scheduled for summer 2012.

If almost a year is unbearably long, you can always try one of my solos ;-)

- Ed

Anonymous said...

Hello, Ed. I'm a huge fan of the Known Space series books, but I did notice that with exception to the Man-Kzin Wars, Larry hasn't allowed other authors to write in his universe, even frequent collaberators such as Pournelle. So, the two fo you writing the Worlds series-within-a-series made me curious: What about you helped Larry decide to do collaberation pieces with him. And depressing as it may be to ask, with Larry having turned 73 this year, will you be continuing the Known Space series if/when he passes away?

Also, you've mentioned that Fate of Worlds is going to be the final installment of the Worlds series; will you and Larry continue to be working together in Known Space afterward?

Edward M. Lerner said...

Hi (Latest) Anonymous,

Glad you're enjoying the Fleet series.

Why did Larry agree to this collaboration? To know for certain, you'd have to ask him. (I like to think my concept for Fleet of Worlds was just that irresistible ;-) )

As for another collaboration after Fate of Worlds ... I won't say never, but after five novels together in six years, I'm looking for a change of pace.

- Ed

Ross from Hibbing MN said...

Mr. Lerner,

I first purchased Fleet of Worlds because I am a huge fan of Larry Niven's Known Space universe and try to read everything that is published, including the Man Kzin series. Ringworld holds a special place for me, as I consider this book one of classics of SF.
At any rate, I thoroughly enjoyed your collaberation, though to be honest, I was unfamiliar with your works. That sad state of affairs will be changing now that I am almost finished with BOW. Which of your works do you suggest I start out with? Is there any one novel of which you are particularly proud? Or doesn't it matter? In my case, once I start with an author's works, I usually get them all.
On a slightly unrelated note, is there any possiblility that you might collaberate with Mr. Niven on a sequel to the Moties universe?

Thank you for your time!

Brian D White said...

@Ross, there is a Moties sequel in ebook called Outies. I have it on Kindle but have trouble getting through it.

Edward M. Lerner said...

Hi Ross,

I appreciate your kind note.

One of my solo books to start with? First off, thanks for asking.

Except for the two InterstellarNet novels, my solo books aren't in series -- you can pick up any of them.

That said, here are two of my recent titles. Small Miracles (2009) is a near-future techno-thriller about medical nanotech (with Larry's blurb on the front cover). Closer in spirit to Known Space is InterstellarNet: Origins (2010), a novel about First Contact and the evolution of an interstellar, inter-species comm network. (I: O, while standalone, has a sequel: InterstellarNet: New Order.)

If you're curious about either (or any other title of mine), click the cover thumbnail on the right-hand side of this blog.

Contribute to the Motie-verse? That's flattering, but I think Larry and Jerry Pournelle have that covered.

(Aside to Brian: thanks for mentioning Outies. I believe that was written by Jerry's daughter, Jennifer, not by Larry and Jerry.)

- Ed

Anonymous said...

Could it be that by killing Louis, Pak/Teela would be destroying 50% of her bloodline on ringworld? Just a thought.

Edward M. Lerner said...

Hi Anonymous,

Louis was Teela's mate, not her bloodline. Protectors, being sterile, have no reason to care about former (breeder stage) mates.

Regardless, Teela's goal at the end of Ringworld Engineers

*** spoiler alert ***

was never to kill Louis. Quite the opposite. She hoped Louis would kill her, and that he would then take on the task she was emotionally unable to handle.

- Ed

svatne said...

Can you give us a few more hints as to what will be in Betrayers of Worlds? It is so hard to wait til August for this book.
Thanks
svatne

Edward M. Lerner said...

Hi Svatne,

I infer you would like hints regarding the upcoming book, Fate of Worlds.

I'm loath to say much before a novel comes out. That said, the subtitle is Return from the Ringworld. As that suggests, Louis Wu will be involved.

You can count on your favorite scheming Puppeteer(s) taking part, and the occasional Gw'otesht-16 genius, and a certain brilliant but scarred human paranoid.

I hope (and expect) you'll find the book worth the wait.

- Ed

S1957Dave said...

Mr. Lerner,

Greatly enjoying the Worlds.

Don't all Pak Protectors possess foothands?

Thought you'd enjoy a moving Puppeteer. This is my Spore version link,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDG8EATap3M&list=UUbFRytF9M1wVLnLOeEvVDkQ&index=17&feature=plcp

Edward M. Lerner said...

Hi S1957Dave,

Thanks for the kind words and the video. Re the latter: what's the back story? Why is the Puppeteer trapped in the ring (and what is the ring)?

As for the dexterity of Pak feet ... if Larry said something about that in Protector, it's slipped my mind.

- Ed

Brian D White said...

If Pak breeders are homo habilis, then the Pak Protector foot would not have a thumb.

http://www.angelfire.com/mi/dinosaurs/zhabilis_foot.html

Edward M. Lerner said...

You make a strong case, Brian. (That said, I can't say whether Larry had seen a Homo habilis foot fossil when he wrote Protector. Those were primitive, pre-web times.

- Ed

Brian D White said...

Here is my favorite picture of a Pak from the 9th edition 1981 paperback

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/b0/Protector-Niven-cropped.jpg

Edward M. Lerner said...

I agree, Brian -- that's a great image. (It's the illo on the cover of my paperback edition (from eons ago).

- Ed

S1957Dave said...

cMr. Lerner,

Sorry, the foothand assumption was based on primitive man. Larry never mentioned it.
I was fascinated by the idea of Pak that essentially had four arms, culture, tech, and response time.

The puppeteer is a made from scratch creature from the game Spore.
The ring is a tryout mode. You can check the creatures movement in it.
There is a world editor where I could create an entire herd. I could set them up with a random movement pattern.
I especially like the movement of the hind leg joint. That was the hardest thing for me to visualize in the novels.

S1957Dave said...

Mr. Lerner,

I've added a puppeteer herd video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCxUDJk2hCc

Edward M. Lerner said...

:-)

Brian D White said...

Ed,

In anticipation of Fate of Worlds I have been re-reading all the Ringworld and Fleet of Worlds books; I have started "Fleet" yesterday. My technical question is shouldn't all remote star systems be referred to as stellar rather than solar systems. I've come to understand that solar refers to Sol, the name of Earth's sun.

Thanks,
Brian

Edward M. Lerner said...

Hi Brian,

That's a good question, for which I don't believe there is a single standard and correct answer. Certainly Sol is the official name of our home star. That does make solar system debatable as a general term. But what are the alternatives?

Dictionary.com gives as its first definition of stellar: "of or pertaining to the stars; consisting of stars." That's why (to me, anyway) a stellar system is a group of stars, say a binary system like Sirius or a triple system like Alpha Centauri. A case could be made a star cluster is a stellar system.

Another candidate term is planetary system. That's ambiguous, too. It might refer to the set of planets orbiting a star, or it might refer to the set of moons orbiting a planet. As an instance of the latter usage, consider a term for Saturn and its 50+ natural satellites.

That's why -- after reaffirming there is, IMO, no official or best answer -- I use Sol system to refer to our sun and its planets, and solar system to refer to similar collections centered on other stars.

Consider my usage an homage to good ole Sol.

My usage, FWIW, parallels how units of measure often honor the scientists who did the original work in subject areas. For example, the farad is the unit of measure for electrical capacitance, honoring pioneer researcher Michael Faraday.

- Ed

Brian D White said...

Ed,

Thanks for taking the time for such a thorough response. After your explanation, I agree there is something implicitly plural about the word stellar.

Moreover in the context of the story, since the Citizens are such professional linguists who trained the Colonists in English, I now believe that either the Long Pass dictionary of circa 2197 resolved it or the Citizens redacted it to make several words less ambiguous since they claimed to the Colonists to have created English for them.

Thanks again for bringing new life to the Known Space universe.

Edward M. Lerner said...

My pleasure, Brian.

- Ed

Morroco said...

Please, make a story telling that Pak originated in Earth, and then migrated to the galactic Core. That would match our scientific knowledge, which says that humans originated and evolved in earth. We share DNA with the oldest microorganisms. The lack of tree of life on Earth may be explained as result of protectors fights. And the contradiction with the stated origin on the Core may be a diversion caused by some protector to fight back, or to assure the survival of his protected lineage on Earth.

Edward M. Lerner said...

Hi Morroco,

Thanks for your note -- and I understand your frustration with the scientific inconsistency. That said, I don't see a new story with that premise happening. Known Space is Larry's universe, and he makes the rules.

- Ed

Brian D White said...

I too feel the same frustration. Sci-Fi pioneers whose assumptions have been proven wrong must be accepted. Just the potential of nano tech on future space exploration changes the whole Known Space universe. Can we make Larry and Ed immortal? I sometimes wish and would love if they rebooted all the Known Space books. None of Larry’s organ bank stories would likely make sense anymore. Sure the Carlos Wu autodoc will not be the exception but rather the rule?

But I do wish we could keep exploring the Pak. I really want to know what happened on Home at the end of Protector (the novel). We think we know but the pleasure is in the reading rather than the inferring. Did all the Home protectors really die to defend from the wave of Pak? What innovations were used to defeat the Pak? So much potential.

But I’m grateful for what Ed gave us.

Edward M. Lerner said...

Thanks, Brian.

(The opportunity to write on a clean slate is one reason I also work solo in my own universes. Check out edwardmlerner.com if you're curious.)

- Ed

Jaycee Adams said...

The central plothook of "The Coldest Place" was even obsoleted before it was published, yet it still made for a good story. At the time, there was every reason to believe that Mercury was tidally locked into a 1:1 resonance with the Sun, like the Moon is, and it stood to reason that the dark side of Mercury would be among the coldest places in the Solar System, in a surprising place. But shortly before the story was published, it was discovered that Mercury did indeed rotate (with a 3:2 tidal resonance), yet the story sold just fine and was enjoyed by millions. Even today it's still a good story.

You probably have little problem accepting time travel stories, and the idea of alternate timelines. This is simply one of those alternate timelines, one in which Mercury doesn't rotate. Likewise, the "Niven-verse" (because "Known Space" is just too generic a term to trademark) is filled with "facts" which are true there, but not here in our universe.

Edward M. Lerner said...

Hi Jaycee,

I agree -- Known Space is an alternate universe. That's the fate of any SF that survives long enough. It's happened with some of my solo stuff already.

- Ed